Homophobia, Conservaphobia and legitimate criticism

I have no big problem with people respectfully disagreeing with each other abouthomosexuality.

I know there are Christian Conservatives who consider a homosexual relationship sinful but DO really love gay people as their fellow humans.

As I made it clear, I’m against any kind of discrimination due to their honest moral conviction.

What infuriates me are the Conservatives who passionately hate homosexuals and dehumanize them.

So I think that the following logo was a welcome move:

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Given that, it is only fair that progressive Christians such as Michelle provided such an answer:

 

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This is how I want societal debates to be carried out.

 

 

13 thoughts on “Homophobia, Conservaphobia and legitimate criticism

  1. What infuriates me are the Conservatives who passionately hate homosexuals and dehumanize them.

    Where are they? Show me them. I pointed you at evangelical conservative leaders who condemned the Uganda law far in advance of it even becoming law. Even Jack freaking Chick doesn’t passionately hate homosexuals.

    But John Shore explicitly and passionately hates conservative evangelicals.

    I don’t think it’s asking too much of you to request you show me these people who hate homosexuals and wish to beat them to death. And if you don’t think that’s the case with conservative evangelicals, then say as much.

    And you know what? I bet you can find examples. The issue is I bet the examples you’re going to find are either going to be scattered lunatics like the WBC, or people whose offenses are so minor as to make John Shore look even worse when you provide them as examples.

    When I talk about progressives who are oppressing people by force of law or by firing them, I don’t have to appeal to people who I kinda-sorta bet are out there. I can point to full-blown state action and firing events.

    In fact? I can, sad to say, point to your blog. Show me the progressive Christian who condemned John Shore’s hate speech, his calling for ‘war’ on evangelicals, casting them as people who supported and more in the past. Because when it came up here, I noticed the response from the progressive regular split into two camps:

    1) Total silence.
    2) Suggesting that mayhap Mr Shore exaggerated a bit but really some conservatives are jerks, and isn’t that the most important issue here?

    And before anyone asks, I can link myself arguing with libertarian conservatives who believe it’s morally acceptable to fire someone the moment they find out said person is gay, among other things.

    • I’m reminded of the following in Os Guinness’ The Gravedigger File:

          A second type of faulty analysis involves a distortion in evaluation. The distinction between description and evaluation is not hard and fast, of course (even in science), but it is important. Let me illustrate. One evening, after dining at one of the Oxford colleges, Lord Nuffield was surprised at the porter’s accurate memory in handing him his hat. “How did you know it was mine?” he asked.
          The porter replied, “I didn’t, Sir! All I know was that it was the one you came in with! Such a cool and judicious refusal to make judgments that go beyond the evidence is exactly what is rare among Christians today. (43)

      I do heartily sympathize with part of atheists’ accusations against Christians: Christians have a tendency to not care about a rigorous analysis of the evidence. The scholars will do this, but most Christian laypersons will not. They don’t differ from their non-Christian equivalents, which means that Rom 12:1-2 is shown to be a mockery. And then Rom 2:24 is proven true:

      For, as it is written, “The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”

      Christians are called to be grounded in what is true. Failure to do this is failure to love God. And then Christianity looks increasingly like a man-made religion.😦

      • Crude, I found John Shores’ recent rant against evangelicals, in the after math of the World vision crisis, to be very disturbing. And he was not the only one. There were others who stated they were ‘DONE’ with evangelicals.

        As a progressive, I commented in several places that we cannot be ‘done’ with evangelicals. They are our brothers and sisters; how can we be done with them?

      • JWB,

        See, Shore being ‘done’ with conservative evangelicals is not the disturbing part to me. It’s that bit about how they basically want to beat homosexuals to death with their bare hands, that they were on the side of slavery, and how it’s time to declare war on them which is rather putting me on edge here.

      • I agree, Crude.

        I was particularly upset by his talk of war, and demonizing those who disagree with us is unacceptable. Before his statement, John Shore was among my top five favorite bloggers and I read his post everyday he had one.

        I still have him on RSS feed because he is influential and I want to know what he is up to, but I no longer follow him in my heart. I read his posts only occasionally.

        I don’t remember exactly what he said about the conservatives he attacked, but it was enough to wound me deeply. I would characterize it as hate speech. I saw no love there; he failed to recruit me in his war.

      • I was particularly upset by his talk of war, and demonizing those who disagree with us is unacceptable.

        Well thank you, JWB. I appreciate someone of the progressive bend standing up and calling Shore out on this. I appreciate it immensely. I really mean that.

        You’ve got some bravery compared to many, even if it’s only a gesture on a blog.

  2. Totally agree. Far too many people jump on the bandwagon and shout ‘homophobia’ when opposition to gay marriage is inferred. You don’t have to be homophobic to oppose gay marriage

  3. Here’s the problem, Marc: So far, you’ve linked to no conservative evangelicals who have shown any signs of passionately hating homosexuals, with the exception of crackpots like the WBC. None of the conservative Christians on the blog have expressed any agreement or support whatsoever of the WBC.

    Then you put out an article by John Shore. He spouts radical hate speech and calls for war against conservative evangelicals. So far I’ve seen two responses by you and other progressives on this blog:

    1) Defend him

    2) Say “Okay he goes a bit far maybe but conservative evangelicals really are bad!”…then provide absolutely no evidence for the second statement except links to more progressives saying that conservative evangelicals are bad.

    The fact that you haven’t written a post condemning John Shore as strongly as you’d condemn the WBC speaks volumes, and it’s not good.

  4. In case anyone’s interested, my latest post is an attempt to discuss some of the issues around homosexuality in as neutral and fair a way as possible: http://evangelicaliberal.wordpress.com/2014/05/02/okay-to-be-gay-part-ii/

    Whether or not it’s a successful attempt I’ll leave you to decide!🙂

    The main point I’m trying to make in the article is that we don’t yet really know for sure what manner of phenomenon homosexuality *is* (deviation? disorder? natural variation? none of the above?), nor exactly what causes it in any given case (innate/inherited, acquired, chosen?). Nor do we know for sure what helpful or harmful effects normalising homosexual relationships would have on individuals, families, societies or churches. And nor (I think) can we even say for absolute certain what Christ has to say about homosexuality – clearly the most obvious biblical witness appears to be negative, but of course there are other ways of reading it which may well be legitimate.

    In light of all of which, I think we have to hold our views somewhat provisionally and treat the whole subject as a matter for conscience rather than of science or dogma. Which means that anyone should be free either to oppose *or* support gay marriage or the ordination of gay clergy as their conscience leads, without fear of reprisal.

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