Can a culture warrior love his ‘enemies’?

I had a rather unpleasant exchange with “Crude”, a far-right Catholic blogger from America who used to comment on my own blog.

American culture war.
American Culture War.

I am all too aware that both liberals and conservatives are unlikely to like this post as it was written by someone who sorts of stands in the middle and doesn’t adhere to the dogmas of either side.

 

Marc (me)

Are liberal Christians all the same?
Are conservative Christians all the same?

Crude

No, and I sing the praises of some. A short list, admittedly. And I intensely dislike some ‘conservative’ Christians.

However, if I described the key aspects of liberal Christians that I firmly regard as being essentially anti-Christian, I suspect you’ll find quite the overlap of the Venn diagrams.

By the way, Marc. I recall years ago over at your blog was some snarky little German atheist who used to talk about how the irreligious Germans didn’t really have much of a ‘racism’ problem (compared to the more religious US). I warned at the time that there was quite a lot of people ready and willing to immigrate to Europe, given half a chance, and that the perceived lack of problems wasn’t going to last forever. I recall being laughed at and being told how the only problems were the Turks, and that’s under control.

If ever the opportunity arises, let ’em know that I am laughing my ass off whenever I think of that conversation now.

Marc

I recognise at your tone you feel extremely frustrated and angry.
I don’t think this is doing you any good and I honestly don’t believe that this state of mind honours Christ.
I know only few things about your background, life experiences and what you went through.
But I think you’d be better off praying to God that He shows you if certain things you consider to be right might be wrong.
And I shall certainly do the same.

I haven’t got any news from Andy for a long time.
I do believe that we, as Christians, have a duty to welcome and shelter anyone whose live is really threatened.
But Angela’s Merkel decision to accept more than two MILLIONS of migrants was crazy. Many of them are pseudo-refugees. Many of then have no willingness to integrate themselves into the German society.

I am critical of “Black Lives matter” and I just published this blog post.

My opposition to this movement has caused many progressives to call me a “racist” and “white supremacist”.

I am now convinced that liberal cultural warriors aren’t any better than conservative culture warriors.

But I always try to be gracious and respectful towards respectful opponents.

Best wishes and blessings.

https://drmarkpbarry.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/polarization.jpg?w=700

Crude

Credit where it’s due, Marc. You’re unusual.

That said, I really do what I think is right. Do keep this in mind: you’re coming around to show some sympathy with a point of view that I’ve long occupied. I used to be more moderate. I tried to have a ‘At least we’re all Christian’ attitude with leftist Christians.

Then I started to notice that the leftists didn’t care about God at all. The resurrection? A side-belief at best. No, what was really of interest was motivating the Church to subscribe to whatever the important secular social issues of the day were, with a bit of God-language thrown on them.

I notice, from afar, that the principal opponents to Merkel’s insanity tend to be people holding crosses and having a far more traditional view of Church and State. It’s the liberal Christians and (especially) atheists urging her on.

Crude

(Quoting me)

Besides, the appalling rise of Donald Trump makes it abundantly clear that there are still many Americans of Europeans descent who hate, resent or disdain Afro-Americans.

Hahahaha.

Why do I even bother?

And just like that, I’m reminded yet again of why I disown the Christian Left. Enjoy your Muslims, Marc. May the liberal parts of Europe give way to sultans, and may the rest be blessed by God.

 

malcolmthecynic

If black people don’t want me resenting them, they should probably stop all of that rioting and extreme violence.

It would also help me resent them less if there were less black gang-bangers and if they actually made some sort of attempt to form families instead of breeding like rodents.

But what do I know. I’m just a racist.

 

Marc

Hi Malcolm.

If black people don’t want me resenting them, they should probably stop all of that rioting and extreme violence.

What disturbs me about that sentence is that it involves one hell of an over-generalisation.

“Black” people aren’t a monolithic group. There are as many differences between blacks as there are between “whites”.
Many blacks are appalled by the violence of “Black Lives Matters” and do not feel they represent them.

I agree with you that such acts are indefensible and also completely counter-productive.

But I think you should have written:

If proponents of Black Live Matters don’t want me resenting them, they should probably stop supporting all that rioting and extreme violence.

If an Afro-American wrote:

If white people don’t want me resenting them, they should probably stop discriminating and hating us.”

I would disagree with him for the same reason.

Crude: I don’t expect you to become a liberal Christian.
I don’t expect you to start believing that gay marriage is a good thing.
I don’t expect you to support abortion, all the more so since I believe it should be avoided if the health of the woman isn’t threatened.

But I think that if you call yourself a Christian (and are aware of the Sermon on the Mount), you ought to make a conscious effort to respectfully treat respectful opponents regardless of their ideas.

I’ve always tried to be kind towards you, even when you wrote things I totally disagree with and even when you were insulting towards other commentators on my blog.

Enjoy your Muslims, Marc. May the liberal parts of Europe give way to sultans, and may the rest be blessed by God.”

You are being quite nasty here. Apart from lumping together all Muslims as raping terrorists, you are assuming that I am happy about the current situation, even though I told you that a (small) part of the migrants are violent pseudo-refugees (who are a threat to Westerners, liberal Muslims, homosexuals, and Arab Christians alike).

By the way, Germany and France didn’t invade Iraq. Without American imperialism, there wouldn’t have been such atrocious destructions in Syria and in the Middle East.
So, I do believe that it is the US who should have welcomed the large majority of them.

Let us not forget that most of them aren’t criminals but people who have lost everything because of us Westerners.

https://www.allmystery.de/i/t2277e9_Syrien.jpg
I know this picture is shocking. But let us not forget what Syrian people are fleeing from.

malcolmthecynic

What disturbs me about that sentence is that it involves one hell of an over-generalisation.

What disturbs me about that is that you don’t realize that I’m generalizing.

I’m tired of people pretending they don’t understand that that’s what I’m doing. They do. So I’m not going to apologize for it.

Crude

I agree with Malcolm. The need to constantly self-police and forever parse one’s words to exactitude is nonsensical. Especially when Marc himself will talk about how Trump’s rise obviously shows how wickedly horrible and racist towards black the country is.

That said, the black culture is – for a number of reasons – rife with single moms, who are increasingly copping an attitude of ‘I didn’t do nothing wrong!’ and ‘Oh my God for some reason my kids turned out rotten, it’s not my fault’. White culture has its own mass of problems, but I believe in addressing them, and being clear about their racial realities.

As for Marc, well, that warrants a post of its own.

malcolmthecynic

Yeah. When you realize that the one group you actually made an effort to play nice with is ALSO not, and never going to be, willing to give you a fair hearing, you stop caring about what they think of you at all.

Marc

Crude, I want to be clear about one thing.
I wouldn’t have commented on your blog if you were just a nasty conservative to me. I think you have been being consumed by anger and hatred for too long. And I really believe this is doing you no good at all.

Malcolm, while some folks might understand it this way, many others will feel insulted.

Whenever liberal culture warriors write: “White men cannot bear the idea of a female leading the mightiest country in the world” I feel really offended and angry.

This is why I think *all* such over-generalisations should be avoided.
This is a straightforward application of the Golden Rule you probably know.

Best wishes, Marc.

Crude

Marc,

“I think you have been being consumed by anger and hatred for too long. And I really believe this is doing you no good at all.”

‘Consumed by anger and hatred’ cashing out to… what? Snarky comments? Openly saying I have no patience for a segment of Christianity which was marking me and people like me as a monstrous hateful person even when I was noticeably more delicate and forever trying to be appeasingly careful with my words?

I express contempt for people who despise me or collude with those who do, and I am ‘consumed by anger and hatred’. You buddy up with people who think the failure to service a same-sex wedding is a criminal act, worthy of firing, fining and jailing, but what, you’re better because in direct conversation you’re civil? No, that’s not even in the realm of sensible.

As for ‘many others will feel insulted’ – they’ve turned feelings of insult into a policing weapon. And when we feel insulted or angry, we’re told – and have been told – to shut up and deal with it, because freedom. We offend, innocently or not, and the rules change; our offense is ‘hate’, which freedom is incompatible with.

You should understand why so many people have decided that the politeness game is no longer one they wish to play.

malcolmthecynic

“Malcolm, while some folks might understand it this way, many others will feel insulted.”

You used an example of people of other races making similar generalizations about whites, and you’re quite correct: When that becomes taboo to say, I’ll stop generalizing about blacks.

***************************************

I decided not to further engage them as the confrontation was starting to wear me down.

It goes without saying I completely reject their assertion that it is permissible to be nasty towards a respectful opponent because other people holding similar ideas have bullied you.

Nor do I believe that liberals making racist over-generalisations against whites can justify you making racist over-generalisations against blacks. For this is a form of collective punishment.

(I am using this widespread definition of racism).

As a side note, if anyone is interested in learning the reasons why I don’t think that Black Lives Matter is the right way to tackle the undeniable reality of anti-black racism in America, I am certainly willing to talk about that.

But if you believe there cannot possibly be any such reasons, I am probably not worth your while.

Advertisements

5 thoughts on “Can a culture warrior love his ‘enemies’?

  1. Hi Marc,
    “Can a culture warrior love his ‘enemies’?”
    Of course. I’d even wager that this is more common than not. It is very common that people within a family have strong and diametrically opposed opinions about cultural issues, and afaict, this often leads to heated discussions but it rarely leads to people burning all bridges and no longer loving each other.
    Can a nasty little shit like crude love his enemies though? Of course not. The problem with crude and people like him (no matter if they are on progressive or conservative sides) isn’t that they have strong opinions about cultural issues, it’s rather that they are sadistic, vicious and bigoted.

    • Hey Andy,
      long time, no see!

      I have no doubt that culture warriors in a family manage to keep a good relationship with family members or friends as there are many other things binding them together.

      While talking about love, I am not thinking of widespread secular definitions but of what Jesus asked of His followers.

      “You have heard that it was said, “You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy.” But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you in order that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax-gatherers do the same? And if you greet your brothers only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

      To the best of my knowledge, it very seldom occurs that culture warriors would be respectful towards respectful strangers expressing views they hate.

      Instead of that, they bully, mock and ridicule them and take a vicious pleasure in breaking them psychologically.

      This is incompatible with the words of Jesus (or at least those attributed to him in early traditions we have at our disposal, if you prefer).

      I would personally describe Crude as a mean-spirited self-righteous bigot.
      You have chosen much harder words but they might be well-deserved.

      At any rate, it is hard to see anything redeemable in him.

      Wie geht es dir sonst auf einer persönlichen Ebene? Ich lebe immer noch in England aber ich werde das vereinigte Königreich vielleicht wegen BREXIT völlig verlassen.

      Ich hasse das politische Klima und die Regierung. Sie beuten die armen Briten aus und behaupten, dass fast all ihre Probleme auf europäische Einwanderer zurückgeführt werden können. Ich kann solch eine Stimmung kaum noch ertragen.

      Ich werde versuchen, auf deinen anderen Kommentar sobald wie möglich einzugehen. Aber ich bin mit vielen Dingen beschäftigt.

      Schene Grisse.

      • Hi there,
        mir gehts soweit ganz gut. ich bin immer noch in Deutschland, und werde wahrscheinlich auch hier bleiben. Aber ich arbeite nicht mehr im universitären Bereich, ich bin jetzt software project manager – aber in einer Biotech Firma, also hab ich den Naturwissenschaften nicht ganz den Rücken gekehrt ;-).
        Tut mir Leid für dich das du dich in England nicht mehr so wohlfühlst – ich kanns nachvollziehen, ich glaub mir ginge es sehr ähnlich wie dir wenn ich noch in England wohnen würde. Ich war ja schonmal da für sechs Monate (vor ca. 4 Jahren) und es kam mir damals schon so vor das England ein sehr grosses Armutsproblem hat und die Regierung dies nicht effektiv bekämpft, sondern eher noch schlimmer macht.
        Schöne Grüße zurück.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s